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Bishop Williamson
St Marcel Initiative
September 7, 2015
Often our world of lies says, “Black is white.”
With God for measure, Catholics measure right.
What does the Catholic Church think of “racism”? Or of “anti-semitism”? Or of “sexism”? Or of “homophobia”? And so on and so on. In a liberal world where everybody is supposed to be nice to everybody, is it not surprising how “political correctness” seems to come up regularly with a new class of people for all of us to hate? The Catholic Church, following its divine Master, says we are to love our neighbour and to hate nobody, but it does not say we should love all our fellow-men indiscriminately. Let us see how a great Catholic theologian puts order into our love of God and man. Here are the bare bones of the 13 Articles of St Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologiae, 2a 2ae, Question 26:—
1 Charity does have an order, because it is a friendship in supernatural bliss, and that bliss has its starting-point in God, and wherever you have things following from a starting-point, you have an order. (Notice how the Catholic immediately refers a major question to God. What might liberals immediately refer to as the starting-point of their “niceness”? Hatred of Nazis? Seriously . . . )
2 Charity must love God above neighbour, because charity is a friendship in bliss, and all bliss for myself or my neighbour has its source in God. (Where do liberals place the source of their happiness? In self-fulfilment? In their fellow-men? These are relatively poor forms of happiness.)
3 God must be loved above self, because all (unspoiled) creatures, each in their way, naturally love the common good above their particular good, and God is the natural and supernatural common good of all.
4 Spiritual self must be loved above spiritual neighbour, because I am closer to me than I am to my neighbour so that if I do not love me (spiritually), I am unlikely to love my neighbour. But –
5 Spiritual neighbour must be loved above corporal self, i.e., my own body, because spirit comes before body, because spirit partakes directly in bliss, while body partakes only indirectly (through spirit).
6 Some neighbours must be loved more than others, because they all vary in their closeness to one of the two poles of charity, objective to God, or subjective to me. Saints are closer to God, neighbours to me.
7 Objectively, Saints will be loved more than relatives, but subjectively neighbours will be loved more intensely than Saints, because in a variety of ways they are closer – “Charity begins at home.”
8 Essentially, blood-relatives will be loved above non-relatives, because blood-ties are natural, fixed and substantial. Accidentally however, other ties of friendship can be more powerful.
9 Objectively, parents are to be loved more than children, because as sources of life and of many benefits, parents are closer to God, but subjectively children can be closer to us for several reasons.
10 Father should be loved more than mother, as such, because by the part each plays in giving us life, the father is formal and active whereas the mother is material ( maternal ) and passive (St Thomas was writing about human beings who are normal and not de-natured as they are today).
11 Objectively, parents are to be loved more than wife, because as sources of life and of many benefits they are closer to God, but subjectively she who is “one flesh” with her husband is to be loved the more.
12 Objectively, somebody doing good to us is to be loved more than somebody we do good to, because they are a source of good to us, but by subjective closeness we love the more somebody that we do good to, for various reasons, e.g. “It is more blessed to give than to receive.”
13 There will still be an order of charity in Heaven, especially the loving of God above all. Also the objective grading of neighbour for his closeness to God will count more there than it does here on earth.
“Racism”? – which races are closer to God, or to me? They are not all the same. “Anti-semitism”? – are “Semites” friends or enemies of God? “Sexism”? – do today’s women help or hinder me on my way to God? “Homophobia”? – how do “homos” stand with God?
Kyrie eleison.
Thank you Andrew for allowing his Lordship to grace your site. The Catholic Church is in a
dreadful mess and those who try to follow Jesus are in dire need of encouragement which
Bishop Williamson provides through his Eleison Comments site. Those folk who have the
misfortune to have grown up since Vatican 2 can be excused for being confused for Rome
is simply no longer Catholic. During a dreadful dangerous period when the very existence
of Christian Europe and it`s indigenous (white) population need a leader, there`s none. We
need a fearless pope to guide us through these times, not a NWO Zionist puppet. There is
nothing that cannot be achieved through faith and prayer combined with action; we are
expected to help ourselves, however difficult, in these desperate times,
Charity begins at home.
Charity of honor, pertains only, but strictly only, to Whites, by Whites, from Whites, to fellow Whites.
Period. Fullstop.
The rest are called the stranger, the nokosh or nohosh, the alien, the chivyah, the beasts, the enosh, the beasts of the field that have hands and can speak.
I remember a gorilla in a zoo that could communicate by typing on a keyboard and had a 700 word vocabulary. That’s about better than the average Orc in the inner city today.
Psalm 137: 9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Here David is talking about leading his AMALEKITES to destroy Babylon. Babylon is United Nations, same tower logo, same motto.
But today’s AMALEKITES/ AMELOWKA/ AMEL RIC / AMEL REICH / AMERICA are slaves to the Jew.
And so they destroy themselves.
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible gives the word “Meluwkah”
for “kingdom” at its Hebrew dictionary reference # 4410.
The word “Am” is seen at Strong’s Hebrew reference # 5971
meaning “folk, men, nation, people”
That’s why we have the “Amish” which means “The Volk”, The Race!
The tribal seal of Manasseh is America’s national, racial seal, with the Eagle, the olive branch in the right hand and the 13 arrows in the left hand, to defend the 13 tribes of the White race.
The Children of YHVH (pronounced “Yah-Way”) The White Western European people and nations,:
Reuben is Holland , Simeon is Spain, Judah is the Germanic States, Germany, Ireland, Scotland and White Russia, (Judah had twin sons). Zebulon is France, Issachar is Finland, Dan is Denmark, Gad is Italy, Asher is Sweden, Naphtali is Norway, Benjamin is Iceland , The House of Joseph got a double portion; Ephraim is England, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, – Manasseh is the United States with the Eagle and the 13 olive branches and the 13 arrows. All White European men, women and children – not jews
They also build ancient Egyptian “Pylons” Twin Towers replicas, sometimes as a single tower, with the trapezoid shape topping it off!
“The Catholic Church, following its divine Master, says we
are to love our neighbour and to hate nobody, “
The Catholic church today is
the seat of Satan and his devil sorcerer children on the earth. After the
recent public quotes by the pope, saying Adam and Eve is just a fable, and
Jesus was wrong, anyone Christ-son and daughter who still defends the Catholic
Church, is on the wrong path, outside of Grace, outside of the Kingdom, and I
am sorry to say, going to hell. A person no matter how good, if they are a
passenger in a vehicle driven by a lunatic, will die in the crash all the same.
Ecclesiastes 3:8
A time to love, and a time
to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Cowardice disguised behind the word ‘love’ is for slaves,
Hatred is for heroes.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob
have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Jacob means White people.
Esau means Jews.
“The curse of Cain, (Satan’s son and father of
the Canaanite Jews from Idumea) the curse of
being an outcast and a wanderer
over the face of the earth has finally been
removed.” Rabbi Silver upon the
founding of the state of “Israel.” Jews know
they are Canaanites, and not Israelites or Judahites.
Those who are known and identified as
International
Jewry today; they themselves state that
“Modern Jewry is
Edom.” There is Edom [Esau is called
Edom in Genesis 36:8.
And Edom is in ‘Modern Jewry’ Jewish
Encyclopedia, 1925
edition, Vol. 5, p. 41.
“Strictly
speaking it is incorrect to
call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a
contemporary Jew an Israelite or
a Hebrew.”
(1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).
Caucasian:
Noah Webster’s Encyclopedia of
dictionaries copyright 1958 by the Literary
Press, page 64, “Caucasian”
pertains to the White race originating from the
Caucasus Mountains near the
Black Sea. The Holy Bible states that the House
of Israel would be scattered
north of the river Euphrates 1 Kings 14:15. 721
BC all 10 tribes were taken
captive by the Assyrians and driven into the
Caucasus Mountains between the
Caspian and Black Seas 2 Kings 17:6, 18:9-11,
Hosea 2:6 “I will hedge up thy
way with thorns and will make a wall that she
shall not find her paths.” In
this way Yahweh was making it clear that the
Israelites were not to return to
Palestine.
Ye (Jews)
are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar,
and the father of it.
John 8:44
He that
is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not
of God.
John 8:47
Then
answered the Jews, …
John 8:48
Matthew 27:25
Then answered the Jews,
and said, His blood be on
us, and on our children (forever).
Jews are Christ killers.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Yeah, lost unto their own
IDENTITY, the White Caucasian Saxon Isaac-son people descended through Jacob
Israel THE MAN.
Yashuah came only for
White people.
For two eye witness
testimonies to the physical description of Jesus Christ, you may search and
read the letter written by Pontius Pilates to Tiberius Caesar, and also the
letter written by Publius Lentulus to Tiberius Caesar, both testify Yashuah was
a Blond hair blue eyed White man. Once you realize that, then you realize that
Barabas was the Robin hood of his day.
Matthew 6:24
“No man can serve two masters: for
either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the
one, and despise the other. ”
Notice loving good
requires hating evil. It does not say love everything, love the sinner but hate
the sin, bullshit! Love of a thesis is simultaneously hate of its antithesis.
Truth is hate to those
who hate the truth.
Love of truth demands by
default a hatred of lies.
Love of good demands by
default a hatred of evil.
There is no such thing as a positive emotion without its
negative counterpart and counterweight.
Negentropic
They never will love where
they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate. – Edmund Burke
Evil must be confronted by men who love and hate with a passion
greater than the men who worship darkness and not the light.
All men that are ruined, are ruined on the side of their natural
propensities. There they are unguarded. Above all, good men do not suspect that
their destruction is attempted through their virtues. This their (Jew) enemies
are perfectly aware of: and accordingly, they (Jews), the most turbulent of
mankind, who never made a scruple to shake the tranquillity of the country they
reside in but are not a part of, to its center, raise a continual cry for peace
with France. Peace with Regicide, and war with the rest of the world, is their
motto. – Edmund Burke
George Lincoln Rockwell
“But Nature, like a farmer
breeding cows, can improve the breed only by fostering the breeding of the
better type, and eliminating the poorer type. Nature accomplishes this task
with the most powerful instincts we are given: LOVE of our own, and HATRED of those
who intrude-or “outsiders”.
These two instincts
are equally important: Love is not “good” while hate is
“evil”-which is the canard so dearly loved by the Jews, liberals,
hippies, queers, and half-wits.
Love is indeed
incredibly powerful, and good, when it is NATURAL.
LOVE, the natural,
healthy kind, is indeed what makes the world go round, and is the most
beautiful, holy miracle we ever see here on this earth.
BUT WITHOUT A
DEADLY HATE OF THAT WHICH THREATENS WHAT WE LOVE, LOVE IS AN EMPTY WORD, A
CATCHWORD FOR HIPPIES, QUEERS, AND COWARDS.”
Pope
“I care not what god you
worship so long as your loyalty is to the mother church”
Note: Whenever they use
the word “mother”, mother church, motherland, etc, they are the Jew. We White
Aryan Israelites say “patriot” and “patriarch” , “pater familia” “patrius”, “padre”
“pitar”, Father Land, Heavenly Father. Only the Y chromosome passes on the
consciousness, the soul. Only Jews worship the mother over the Father and delight
in bitches running amok fucking everything.
“Catholic” means “universal”.
The catholic church is dead:
Jew Pope Francis declares
Lucifer as God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcpVrtv2t-M
“Most Jews do not like to
admit it, but our god is Lucifer… – and
we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much
alive.” “When only Jews are
present we admit that Satan is our god.”
— Harold Wallace Rosenthal, a top
Administrative
Aide to one of this nation’s
ranking senators, Jacob Javits R-NY, in a tape
recorded interview by Walter
White, Jr., which was conducted in1976. From the
book “The Hidden
Tyranny”. Rosenthal was then murdered and
silenced by Jews on the 8/12/1976
sky-jacking of an Israeli jetliner in Istanbul,
Turkey, in which four people
were killed and some thirty injured. Aboard was
the administrative assistant
for then-U.S. Senator Jacob K. Javits (a Jew) of
New York, 29 year-old Harold
W. Rosenthal (a Jew), whose murder that day was
not from random bullets that
killed the others. Evidence indicates that his
was pre-planned, making due to
his lengthy, boastful interview with American
Christian editor Walter White.
Proof that Obama and Francis were Prechosen by
the
illuminati
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j8nu9sd-WE
Obama’s Symbolic Gift Exchange with the Pope
http://theopenscroll.blogspot.com.tr/2014/04/obamas-symbolic-gift-exchange-with-pope.html
Please visit vaticancatholic.com . Protestants, the heretical Novus Ordos, along with the Eastern ‘Orthodox’ are all heretical. If you have a careful look throughout that website, you can see for yourself why the Sedevacantist position is true. Please… convert to the one, true Faith, and abandon your heretical, schismatic positions. The entity you call the “Catholic” church is not at all Catholic… that website proves why.
I will have a closer look tomorrow; so far it looks interesting.
Just answer me one question: this most holy family thing that site is promoting, is it WHITES ONLY?
Yes, or no?
No.
The parable of the stoning of the woman is often misunderstood principally because of jewish penetration into the Catholic Church. Jesus said it was alright to stone the adulteress as long as the hand that threw the first stone was of one without sin. How many deviants and murderers have not been punished because of Jewry’s hijacking of natural law.
John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
They were not witnesses.
Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Christianity teaches these laws are no longer in force. Jesus does not say that. The Holy Scripture do not say that.
Christe eleison.
Christianity > Islam and Judaism
Holy Scriptures >>>>> ALL religion.
What real Popes, not Vatican II Antipopes, have to say about Islam.
Pope Callixtus III:
“I vow to exalt the true Faith, and to extirpate [root out and destroy completely] the diabolical sect of the reprobate and faithless Mahomet in the East.”
Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, 1311-1312
These [Islamic] practices cannot be tolerated any further without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in christian lands. We enjoin on catholic princes, one and all, who hold sovereignty over the said Saracens and in whose territory these practices occur, and we lay on them a pressing obligation under the divine judgment that, as true Catholics and zealous for the christian faith, they give consideration to the disgrace heaped on both them and other Christians. They are to remove this offence altogether from their territories and take care that their subjects remove it, so that they may thereby attain the reward of eternal happiness. They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet.
Pope Pius II:
“Turn the anger of the Almighty against the godless Turks and Barbarians who despise Christ the Lord…..In the royal city of the east, they have slain the successor of Constantine and his people, desecrated the temples of the Lord, defiled the noble church of Justinian with their Mohometan abominations. Each success, will only be a stepping stone until he has mastered all the Western Monarchs, overthrow the Christian Faith, and imposed the law of his false prophet on the whole world”
Communism comes from the Bible.
The Jews who created communism HATE Jesus, Adamic Israel etc.
You are so far from the truth of the Holy Scriptures.
But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
I can go on Kike.
UK Neolithic? Barrow
Wayland’s Smithy (Waylands Smiths Cave/Waylen Smith’s Cave) (Long … given, I discovered a new secret as I passed the gateway into the
“cruciform chamber”.
Were these aligned barrows built by ‘mixed seed’ fallen angel/human muds >
(false jew’s father = Satan)
Ps. There is a “hidden hex” around the modern, Prague jew, so-called, Star of David
– join the tips of the triangles on the outer edges!
I noticed this > C.C.T.V.
C – ross > 2D
C – ube > 3D
T – esseract > 4D (time)
V – ectoring > 5D
Quote
[A 5th Dimension!
Using Vector Maths, could one describe the path of a “elementary” particle
by adding a 5th dimension?
The first three dimensions would be the place:
x, y, z (of course relative).
The fourth dimension ‘time’, when the particle, was, where.
And the 5th dimension as the “Uncertainty Principle”
(ΔxΔp>ħ/2 and ΔEΔt>ħ/2),
defining where the particle roughly was or will be.
So that in the end there are millions of paths that could be gone with different certainties.]
http://www.ted.com/conversations/23359/a_5th_dimension.html
Where did you get this from, helpthejews.com?
Cool story bro, now you just have to explain why Jews hate Christianity more than they hate anything else.
They constantly refer to the Bible to justify the existence of Israel. The only thing my dad told me about the Jews, growing up, was that they’re “God’s chosen people.”
Rebuke everything, religion included, that would have us rely on faith and force, or guilt us, to go against all our natural White instincts of what is right and what we know is wrong.
While I do not believe everything the Catholic or Catholic Church has to say, I just want to point out that with the imminent arrival of the Pope, we may be in for a major dose of milarky. If he comes to us and tells us that we need more brown people, indiscriminately of their religion, this is bull. The Pope has already said that we should not proselytize people. Secondly if he in anyway tacitly endorses the homo like he has in the past, this is also milarky. I am getting sick of seeing all the browns and other assorted coloreds in my area. We still must push on trying to control our small portion of the world. And, keep it from decadence and moral degradation.
I say we launch a twitter campaign against the Pope on his arrival to the states as to get our ideas out there. The modern Catholics are not much different that the Talmudic Jews. They believe in the traditions of men. Their doctrines are becoming more and more a secular idea of morality to boot.
“Catholics are not much different than the Talmudic Jews”
Genetically speaking, Italians and Ashkenazis are near identical.
I always thought they were similar.
Differentiate between the genetics of the people living in an area otherwise you conflate geography with genetics.
Wes — this seems like a pretty outrageous statement on the face of it. Are you basing this on findings from the genome project?
How do you explain the ghetto-ization of the kikes by various Italian city-states? an intra-hebish squabble?
If I’m not mistaken, humans and chimpanzees are near (sic) identical, as well. So what?
That’s a huge oversimplification of demographics in Italy. There is a huge range of ethnic sources, including some very german looking people, all sharing Italian surnames. That’s the source of the conflict with Lega Nord.
Go read March of the Titans by Arthur Kemp and learn what the true Romans looked like and how they disappeared. Nearly all Italians today are mongrels and have joined the ranks of the modern Egyptian muds, modern muslims in former Persia, and Dravidian monkeys in India, who have all stolen the achievements of the White race and pretend they are theirs, when deep down they know the truth and get very angry when it is pointed out, because nothing hurts like the truth.
Also, chechar.wordpress has a good long article about the classical face of Greece, with translated quotes from original Greek, which says the same thing as March of the Titans, which really is required reading for Whites.
Dude, I am Italian and pure white, and my relatives are all white with flat faces (no traces of any semitic mixing). There are still blond blue-eyed Italians in the North (although my family has light-brown eyes and hair). My Italian girlfriend’s family is the same, with the exception that they still have red-haired children now and then. Point being, There are still LOTS of pure blood non-mixed Italians. Also, Italian IQ tests, when controlled for race, give the highest scores outside of northern Europe. Andrew posted that link some time ago I will see if I can find it.
I have no doubt the IQ tests will be high, when conducted on Whites only in a country where the government has few jews. In America, where Jews dominate academia and the Zog government, they repeatedly lie 6 million times that Jews have the highest IQ, followed by Chinese, followed by Whites, but I have lived in Asia long enough to know, the Jews lie.
Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
I am aware North Italy has many pure Whites. Instructor Zero on youtube is an example.
However, if you had read March of the Titans, and the face of classical greece on chechar.wordpress, you would know that the original Romans were not “red heads” with “light brown eyes”. And until you read it, you are ignorant, uninformed, unaware, uneducated on this subject and not on a level playing field to make any rational debate. Seriously. If you are trying to say there has been no demographic change in 2000 years, then I won’t even read your next words.
Sorry, but no.
MARCH OF THE TITANS
READ
Neither does the history of the White race begin with the MOTT, as there are much, much, much older historical parchments, which I won’t even cite since you are not up to speed on the basics.
I also know, based on the statistics of archeology finds of skeletons carrying weapons or not, that the red heads are essentially the “smiths” where as the blonds are the fighters.
I’m in a good mood. I’ll try to find you a link.
WATCH IT.
https://trutube.tv/video/15194/The-Indo-Europeans-A-Documentary
You have completely missed my point in your zeal to smear Italians. I don’t know if you are not listening or just deliberately being obtuse.
Not wasting my time with trolls
Sure thing ignoramus
I choose Creativity. Free Matt Hale!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_(religion)
Nice try. I should get paid for this shit.
I am a creator too bc I don’t believe in semitic Abrahamic lies.
What you are all basically saying there is that you have taken Klassen’s word for it and not bothered to research things for yourself.
I’m Orthodox Christian.
Rahowa Brother. We don’t need a semitic religion, no matter how “Europeanized” it became
Yes Charity today is often an uncontrolled and unexamined passion, one fostered, guided, and controlled by the an evil elite.
Like to hear what he thinks of John 3:13, Genesis 3:15, Genesis 6:9, John 8:44
Wonder if he ever does interviews with open phone lines?
Thomism is quite elegant in its clarity, and it is a sure balm in this time of obfuscation and confusion. Thank you for sharing this very refreshing commentary from the good bishop.
While there is much good in what Bishop Williamson has to say, unfortunately, the poison that lies behind Thomism is directly related to the heresies of: a) Universal Jurisdiction (that the Pope has both a right, and duty to rule over all hominids, everywhere) and its concomitant (that which follows from a prior premise) heresy, tacit Universalism. (If all men are under the Pope’s sway, then ALL MEN are the objects of God/Christ’s salvation effort – which contradicts the Bible, the concept OF a “Chosen People” and most importantly, the concept of Adam as a unique, defined ‘special creation’ created at the end of the creation sequence, as seen in Genesis 1-2, which was written/placed at a time when the anthropological record already showed pre-humans such as Neanderthal and others on the scene.)
Now, most of the readers on this website know my position on Romanism- it once held some of the greatest minds in all of the West as its adherents, and it was foundational in establishing and nurturing the West qua West. But, after the first thousand years (right about the time Thomas Aquinas came along, give or take a century)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas
it was during the era of Aquinas, that the claims of the Papacy blossomed into the institutional behmoth that most of us know as Roman Catholi-schism, today. Which is not saying ‘good things’ about that religion.
While Poliarchus is fundamentally correct, i.e., “Thomism is quite elegant in its clarity” – that ‘clarity’ is the Germanic/Anglo-Saxon penchant for wanting to ‘define’ everything, to the silliness (and utter uselessness) of ‘How many agels can fit on the head of a pin?’ That, too, is Thomism. And I believe it is what has gotten us into the mess that we now have a pope that denies everything that Rome once stood for, because the rationalism has far, far overtaken the mysticism (the good kind, not the ‘mist that ends in schism’ – although with Rome……) in her systems of thought.
Friar, I love your passion but some of these rants are just wrong. At least you seem to have given up on the filioque hobby-horse.
First, no one asked how many angels can fit. That is an Enlightenment schimpf without basis, at least that I can find. (And if anyone DID ask it, it was only as a Probierstein to illustrate the metaphysical question of space and spirit, as Dorothy Sayers suggested.)
Second, Aquin was not Germanic, but Italic. Moreover, it is not an Anglo-Saxon penchant to define everything. See King Alfred’s fatherly letter on the reform of the school — read it in Anglo-Saxon, if possible.
In general, the problem with Germans and Anglo-Saxons is undue deference to the italic way.
Thomas was hardly the entry to papal supremacy. You could blame Hildebrand for that, though under the stealth attack of “reforming” the church. If anyone consolidated the papacy, it would be Innocent 3,
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08013a.htm, some 50 years before Thomas did his work.
Finally, the salvific universalism taught by Rome is not something that distinguishes her from either EO or Protestant — or Anabaptist for that matter. This is a rabbit trail.
Koan from Eastern Europe: What happened to Christ’s foreskin? If you say, one thing you are damned. If you say the other, you are a credulous fool.
Koan from Eastern Europe: What happened to Christ’s foreskin? If you say, one thing you are damned. If you say the other, you are a credulous fool.
Tem- I haven’t ‘given up’ on the filioque. St. Maximus the Confessor wrote an entire book about it, the Councils of Local Orthodox Churches condemned it centuries ago, etc. It’s not a ‘hobby horse’, but it’s not applicable in every circumstance.
Now, as to angels and pins: As another has noted (on a Catholic board) in answer to the question:
“Yes and no. No, because you are equating corporeal creatures with incorporeal creatures. Only one marble can fit on the head of a pin because all of the available space is taken up by the marble. That is to say, the marble is enclosed by the space and there is no space left over. However, angels, being incorporeal, are not enclosed by space at all, rather, angels enclose space (Summa I, Q 52, art 1).
But yes because, it only makes sense to talk about an angle being anywhere insofar as the angle is acting on that space. It only takes one angel to make the marble on the head of a pin spin counter-clockwise. If this were to happen we would say that both the marble and the angel are on the head of the pin. And so according to Aquinas there can only be one angel in any given space (Summa I, Q 52, art 3).
However, I would argue, that one angel could be making the marble spin counter-clockwise, another angel could be making the marble move up and down, another angel could be making the very tip of the pin glow red hot, and another angel could be making the center of the marble turn to water. In this scenario you would have one marble and four angels all on the head of a pin.
As a side note, the original question “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” came from those who were mocking Scholastic Philosophy. I can see why.”- http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=350346
As you can see, Thomistic categories CAN be applied to the point, and that was why somone asked the silly question in the first place. I never said Aquinas asked the question. Only that Scholasticism has a penchant for this sort of minutae.
As another poster noted: “The question of how many angels can sit on the head of a pin is an example often used to discredit what is known as scholasticism in which the scholars are sometimes referred to as “the schoolmen.” What began as valid intellectual inquiry devolved over time into a rigid,unsupportable structure consisting of inferences and conclusions piled atop one another which led eventually to disputations over things such as the inquiry of the number of angels who could sit on the head of a pin. The reasons for the deterioration of scholasticism are many and varied. In my opinion, one was the human penchant to reduce intellectual inquiry to inane formulas.”
That’s not a silly question at all, but one with a definite answer: infinite angels can dance on the head of a pin since they don’t take up space.
The Orthodox always confuse Thomism and infallibility. Aquinas was wrong on some things and Church acknowledges that. And no one is considered a saint merely on account of his intellect – even if he had been right on everything.
But if they are non-spatial, what does it mean to dance?
I think the point is, it wasn’t a serious question.
They are dancing in heaven and can be at any point they wish to be in terms of our space. Read a Romance in Four Dimensions or the Gospels about Christ’s resurrection body which as both solid and not solid as he wished.
Well I’m sorry but you’re going as far afield as Friar John. Angels do not have a human body, in either its corruptible or resurrection form. And if they did, they would at that moment be spatial. Plus, we do not know they are dancing, nor even what that means for a non-spatial being. “Not taking up space” says the same thing.
They can assume a human like body at will. Read your Tobias. They have their own bodies in Heaven – gaseous vertebrae.
Gaseous vertebrae! Haha — no thanks, I’ll leave you and Friar John to battle it out over the apocrypha. Take the last word — one of you.
You don’t believe – any of it. It’s just a living for you. Your a Counter-Syllabus guy all the way.
Actually, it’s the Romanists who confuse their belief in their own infallibility, with the apparent initial success of Thomism in the Middle Ages. As St. Paul talks about ‘mysteries’ in Scripture, it would appear that to leave well enough alone (say, Transubstantiation) when it comes to the Mysteries of God, rather than to go to such lengths as ‘substance and accidents,’ is the wiser course. But this is all really more apropos on a theological blog. I was only trying to point out humor is a good thing, and I think you guys got us sidelined… though such discussions ARE fun for me. But then, I am odd… and I admit it.
How do you reconcile this idea that Christianity is restricted to certain humans with the Great Commission?
Which Idea, Mac?
The idea that Christianity is for Europeans only vs the Great Commission? “Make disciples of all nations”.
One can be discipled, and yet be a slave, not having equal rights with the “Free born Man.” See Epistle of Philemon, Epistle of Galatians.
Equality is not synonymous with salvation. Indeed, the Apostles during Christ’s day saw the Syrophonecian woman, and the Roman Centurions requests honored, but still asked about “restoring the Kingdom to [Tribes of] Israel” in Acts 1:6. And the Ethiopian eunuch was a slave of Candace, yet was given understanding. Just like the Antebellum South, a tiered society may easily be a Christian society- and serfs, slaves, or indentured servants, need not be dispensed with, simply because heretical liberals feel the concept of ” Elect” can only mean, spiritual hierarchies. Slavery is an inescapable construct. It (like the poor) will ALWAYS BE WITH YOU- even (quite apparently, if one reads the Jew’s and Moslem’s take on their spurious election) in the world to come.